Taken from: http://heidelblog.net/2013/10/reformed-and-pentecostal/
June 18, 2008 @ 2:39 PM
I appreciate what you have said. But I am sure you understand how “forbid not the speaking in tongues” seems to the layman to fly in the face of what your tradition holds. You hold that God is able to do these things today but that He cannot because it would possibly add to cannon.
What if He is not bound to the apostolic age to perform miracles that we see throughout the history of Scripture, not just with the apostles? My fear for you is your extremely strong stance against the miraculous today without much Biblical foundation to back it up. Statements you made about being some place in a NY minute if the miraculous were to occur goes under scrutiny when your premise is that they DON’T happen and “Thus Saith the Lord.” I just don’t find your Biblical backing for this. The miraculous was the norm when the Spirit came upon the elect. And why should it not be today?
My experience is that I was raised Baptist and had an encounter with the Holy Spirit when I was eight years old where I spoke in tongues without any “coaching.” I didn’t know what had happened until I read it in the Bible later on. I actually had this encounter in Jerusalem on a trip my family took with their church. Was it emotionalism or demon possession? You have these answers already. But I will say that we had been the garden tomb and the Via Dolorsa that same day. And the reality of Christ overwhelmed me as a child in a prayer meeting that night. My teeth chattered uncontrollably and a language came out of my mouth I had never heard before. I cried for the longest time saying, “Why did they crucify Him? He loved them so much!”
I carried this fire to my high school years where I led a revival in my school where many of my friends came to Christ by His choosing.
This encounter led me to later become a preacher of which I have been for the last 15 yrs in full time ministry.
8 yrs ago, I picked up a book by Martin Luther called The Bondage of the Will. It absolutely turned me on my ear and confirmed my suspicions about the dangers of free-will, self-righteous, man centered salvation/sanctification etc. I then proceeded to go on a holy rampage against all Assembly of God, Pentecostals who taught such demonic doctrine. I broke the church I had pioneered apart out in Dallas, Texas. I watched 150 people walk out the door because of my stand for Reformed theology. With only about the same number left and many asking for me to leave, I gave the church to a friend of mine in the church and left.
Now I meet with my friends out in OC, California where I live and we have a small church of X Arminianists mostly from Pentecostal background.
My problem is that I have no reason to deny what occurred to me as a child just because you give me a “Thus saith the Lord” not found within the cannon on the absence of the supernatural apart from the eucharist, baptism and the Word.
To tell me that Luther did not change my life with an Isaiah 43 understanding of soteriology and that Christ’s presence wasn’t near to me in Jerusalem as a child is absurd.
Watch yourself sir. The sacraments, word, and giftings of Corinithians were not in competition in Paul’s time. Are we not to imitate him? And the moral imperative/accusation laid at my feet that these gifts today detract from the sacraments/word could very well be laid at the first century church’s feet as well. And yet these arguments are not Biblically founded at all.
You say that the gifts of your choosing have ceased because the cannon is closed. I say, do not forbid the speaking with tongues because the cannon is closed. You deny what cannon expressly forbids to deny and it is closed.
Such a harsh stance YOU take when the Bible seems to affirm these gifts in the church and ENCOURAGES them. Are you not forbidding what the Bible commands to be enforced for a reason? Go dig until you find that reason but don’t take an eraser to the majority of chapters on the subject because of some half verse that they shall cease etc when we shall know as we are known.
This type of argument, where half verses are used to wipe out chapters in the Bible is an Arminian’s/Mormon’s hermeneutic, where “not willing that any should perish” (I Peter 3:9) wipes out John 6 and Romans 9.
God forbid there be inward/outward manifestations of His Spirit within the earthen vessels of His saints as well as the sacraments as His points of contact.
Bless you man. But you’ve got to come along.
June 18, 2008 @ 3:02 PM
Let me add one last thing. I see the real issue today with Pentecostals is that they are not God centered doctrinally but man centered. This is what I find Paul addressing in Corinth where many were boasting in themselves and not the Lord Who gave the increase. There is no doubt that your distaste for much of what is seen in the Pentecostal world today comes from a holy rage against self-righteous, self-exalting ceremony/behavior that points to “look at me” religion. I hear you loud and clear on people putting big words on ordinary events. But I do not hold to your reasoning entirely of “it’s the gifts fault.” I think instead, it is the church’s fault for not teaching reformed theology, not tradition, but theology on “what do you have that you have not been given?”…God centered. I blame free-will theology as the center of this problem. “Apart from Me you can do nothing” and end of Mark 16 “these signs shall follow,” if it be treated as cannon, should instead be taught hand in hand. This was Paul’s approach to my understanding in Corinth and it is the approach today.
Don’t target the gifts dude.
Target the motives of the heart based upon a blatant disregard or ignorance of Sola Deo Gloria doctrine. If this doctrine is taught, you won’t have to make out like God can’t do today etc…
I think you should loosen up on Charismatics coming into the Reformed faith. Charismatics think that cannon is yard stick which says don’t take away or add to what has been charged you by this book. In this way, we do not see word of knowledge, prophecy, tongues, healings as adding to cannon but instead fulfilling it as was spoken would happen at the day of Pentecost in generally when the Spirit would fall on the old and young.